A Free, Occasional, Online Summary of Items of Interest to Descendants of all Families of Graves, Greaves, Grieves, Grave, and other spelling variations Worldwide


Vol. 10, No. 8, July 15, 2008




Copyright © 2008 by the Graves Family Association and Kenneth V. Graves.  All rights reserved.


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** General Comments

** Graves Luncheon in Dallas, TX, July 19, 2008

** Trip to England in June 2009

** Should You Order DNA Testing Upgrades?

** New Website and Newsletter of Ron Graves

** To Submit Material to this Bulletin & Other Things






A reminder of the luncheon meeting in Dallas, TX this coming Saturday, and another reminder of the trip to England next June are the most important things in this issue.  I hope the other articles are also of interest and help to some of you.






The Graves meeting and luncheon in Dallas, Texas on Saturday, July 19, will be at 11:00 a.m. at the West End location of Sonny Bryans Smokehouse BBQ.  The address of the restaurant is 302 North Market St., Dallas, TX.  It is at the corner of North Market St. and Pacific Ave., very close to I-35E (North Stemmons Freeway) and Texas 366 (Woodall Rodgers Freeway).  Everyone who can be there is encouraged to attend.  There will be no set menu – you will be able to order as much or as little as you want.  Although this will be an informal affair, Ken Graves will try to answer any questions and discuss any issues that may be of interest to those in attendance.


Please let me know that you will be there, if possible.  (My cell phone number is 774-291-2192.)  If you don’t let me know, you are welcome to show up anyway.






The trip to England will be the first half of June 2009, and will be 12-14 days, starting from and ending in London..  More details (including an itinerary, etc.) will be in the next bulletin (after I get home from Texas, Arkansas and Missouri).  The cost will be about $3,500 per person (including air fare to and from England and the U.S. east coast).  More information about the trip in 1995 can be seen on the GFA website under Activities/Recent Events.


If there is a possibility that you may want to go, please let me know as soon as you can.  The following paragraphs describe the trip.  Although many people have already told us of their interest, we would like to have a higher response.  In general, the more people who go, the less expensive it will be.  Any comments and suggestions will be welcomed.


We will be visiting places of scenic and historical interest, as well as places of significance to your ancestors.  This will not be a research trip, and we do not plan to schedule time in archives and libraries, although you always have the option to go off on your own for a day.  In the 2009 tour, we will be visiting a few of the same places as in 1995, but in no way will this be a repeat of that trip.  The present plans are for the tour to include Keswick and the beautiful Lake District, the Hertford/Nazeing area, York, Lincolnshire, and London.  We are also considering visiting other places including King’s Norton and Moseley Hall (now part of Birmingham), Mickleton, Beeley, and Buckingham.  Meetings with members of the various Graves and Greaves families will be an important part of the tour.  See also the discussion on the website under Activities/Future Events.


One of the big advantages of this trip will be that many of us now know where in England our ancestors were from, and some of the various Graves and Greaves families that are related.  You will probably get to meet distant relatives you never knew existed.


If you live in the U.K. or Ireland and would like to join us, that would be great!  If you live there and might like to help organize a meeting with local Graves/Greaves/Grieve family members as part of our tour, please let me know.  No matter where you live, if you have any strong feelings about places we should visit, let me know that also.


A link to a response form to let us know of your interest is in the first paragraph in the “What’s New” section of the main page of the GFA website.  There is also a link at the end of the sidebar section for “Next Events”.  If you have any problem with the form, just send me an email with your name, address, likely number in your group, and whether you might be interested in an optional add-on tour of Ireland and/or Scotland.






There are several types of upgrades.  Upgrading a Y-DNA test to more markers is usually very helpful, as discussed in previous issues of this bulletin.  Recently, however, FTDNA has been offering more of what they call a Deep Haplogroup (or Deep Clade) Test.  Questions include: What is this? How can it help you? Should you order it?


In general, it may be helpful to our DNA study for at least a couple of people in each group to get these Deep Haplogroup tests.  The reason is that this is another way to learn more characteristics of each person’s DNA so that we can better put people with the same test results in the same group and separate those who belong in other groups.  The SNPs used for this test are measures of longer-term ancestry, but they may eventually be able to show nearer-term ancestry also.  In addition to being of help to our DNA study, these test results may be of interest to each of you to indicate where your ancestors lived over thousands of years.  The discussion below is mostly from the Family Tree DNA website.


Family Tree DNA now offers its Y-DNA customers Deep Clade tests to determine what branch of their haplogroup they belong to. These Deep Clade tests have been updated with new SNPs and haplogroup branches in the 2008 Y-Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree.

Family Tree DNA provides the most comprehensive Deep Clade testing panels available on the market. These tests are available for haplogroups E1b1b, G, I, J, and R. The tests begin with your predicted haplogroup, and then tests whatever SNPs are necessary in order to determine your placement on the haplogroup tree. All SNPs tested will be reported to the customer as they are completed.

The purpose of the Deep Clade test is to confirm your haplogroup assignment and determine where your lineage fits within that haplogroup’s tree. Some haplogroup branches are found within more specific populations and geographic locations. As research progresses, more geographical specificity associated with SNPs will emerge. For more information about haplogroups, look at FTDNA’s Haplogroup FAQ.

Scroll down to view the haplogroup trees covered by Deep Clade testing. Prices vary depending on the Deep Clade test. To order a Deep Clade test, log in to your account and proceed to the Haplogroup section. If there is a Deep Clade test available for your haplogroup, the test will automatically be offered to you. If you have already tested your Deep Clade and new SNPs are available which may be informative for you, the applicable upgrade will be offered to you in the Haplogroup section.


Some Definitions from the FTDNA Website

What is a haplogroup?
One way to think about haplogroups is as major branches on the family tree of Homo Sapiens. These haplogroup branches characterize the early migrations of population groups. As a result, haplogroups are usually associated with a geographic region. If haplogroups are the branches of the tree then the haplotypes represent the leaves of the tree. All of the haplotypes that belong to a particular haplogroup are leaves on the same branch. Both mtDNA and Y-DNA tests provide haplogroup information, but remember that the haplogroups nomenclature are different for each.

Y-DNA haplogroups
A Y-DNA haplogroup is defined as all of the male descendants of the single person who first showed a particular SNP mutation. A SNP mutation identifies a group who share a common ancestor far back in time, since SNPs rarely mutate. Each member of a particular haplogroup has the same SNP mutation. For a single page graphic representation of the Y chromosome haplogroup tree, please see the haplotree.


mtDNA haplogroups
An mtDNA haplogroup is defined as all of the female descendants of the single person who first showed a particular polymorphism, or SNP mutation. Like Y-DNA SNP mutations, an mtDNA SNP mutation identifies a group who share a common ancestor far back in time.

How is my haplogroup determined?
Your haplogroup is automatically tested and confirmed for mtDNA tests. For Y-DNA tests, your haplogroup is predicted based on a large database that Family Tree DNA has for this purpose. The Y-DNA haplogroup database consists of the test results of participants in studies conducted and tested by Dr. Hammer at the University of Arizona.

Due to our high level of confidence in our prediction algorithm, most of the times a person will not be offered to order a confirmation test of their Haplogroup. However, on some occasions where we don’t feel that a Haplogroup can be determined unambiguously without a test, the SNP test will be offered. For several haplogroups we can now offer Deep Clade tests, which can provide further information.






Ron Graves of San Antonio, Texas has just announced that he has a new website at  He is a professional motivational speaker, has a motivational newsletter, a blog, an internet talk show, and has published four motivational books.  One of his goals is to increase the number of people receiving his monthly newsletter.  If you are interested, just go to his website and signup for the free newsletter.


Ron is descended from genealogies 13 and 270, and is the main organizer of the Southwest Chapter of the Graves Family Association.





This bulletin is written and edited by Kenneth V. Graves,  Ken Graves was also editor of the Graves Family Newsletter (no longer published).  This bulletin will contain announcements and news of special interest to Graves descendants with Internet access.  It will not contain queries, genealogies, photos, and the kind of in-depth articles that used to appear in the Graves Family Newsletter.



Send any material you would like to have included in this bulletin to  The editor reserves the right to accept, edit or reject any material submitted.



If you do not already belong to the GFA, you can join by sending $20 per year to Graves Family Association, 20 Binney Circle, Wrentham, MA 02093 (more details on GFA website).  Payment may also be sent electronically via PayPal by going to and sending payment to  Benefits include access to the “members only” section of the website, membership directory, and help with learning more about your Graves/Greaves family.  The purpose of the GFA is to bring together as many descendants as possible to work toward learning more about the Graves/Greaves families, to help other descendants, and to instill pride in our ancestry.



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