Vol. 17, No. 2, Feb. 16, 2015


A Free, Occasional, Online Summary of Items of Interest to Descendants of all Families of Graves, Greaves, Grieves, Grave, and other spelling variations Worldwide




Copyright © 2015 by the Graves Family Association and Kenneth V. Graves.  All rights reserved.


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** General Comments

** Grieve, Greive and Grieves Families and Ancestry

** Updates to the GFA Website

** Multiple Matches With Relatives and Ancestry’s Matching

** February is Black History Month in the U.S.

** How to Hire a Professional Genealogist

** Two Opportunities to Learn More About Your Irish Ancestors

** Which DNA Testing Company is the Best?

** England’s Immigrant Database, 1330-1550

** To Submit Material to this Bulletin & Other Things






For those of you who really, really like snow, eastern Massachusetts is the place to be right now. It seems as though it has snowed, at least a little, almost every day for the past 3 weeks.  We have had a total of close to 6 feet of snow where we live.  Great shoveling exercise! Another 3-5 inches is predicted for tomorrow.


There’s no particular theme to this issue of the GF Bulletin, just a collection of articles that I hope are interesting and helpful to you.






The Graves Family Association includes all versions of the Graves/Greaves surname.  The spellings of Grieve, Grieves, and Greive occur almost entirely in Scotland, and in Northumberland and Durham, England.  Sometimes the spelling has changed to Graves or Greaves as families have migrated, but it is not presently known to what extent people with different spellings are related.  It looks likely that many with this surname are descended from Scottish clans, have used the clan name or a subset of that, and therefore may match people of various surnames other than Graves or Greaves.


The Grieve and Grieves genealogies on the Graves Family Association website are the following.  The four asterisked genealogies are the only ones with a Y-DNA test of a descendant.

           Gen. 40, Thomas Grieve and Anne Hamilton of Scotland

           Gen. 71, Walter Grieve and Janet Anderson of Roxburghshire, Scotland

           Gen. 142,Robert Grieve and Ellen Scott of Roxburghshire, Scotland & IL

           Gen. 183, Robert Grieve and Agnes Ann Gillespie of Crail, Fife, Scotland

           Gen. 196, Barny Grieves and Sarah Treece of Ireland & Ross Co., OH

           ** Gen. 435, William Grieve and Ann Patterson of Ceres, Fife, Scotland (genealogy not yet online)

           ** Gen. 446, John Grieve of Dumfriesshire, Scotland (genealogy not yet online)

           Gen. 637, William Thomas Grieves and Sarah Ann Cademy of Northumberland, England

           ** Gen. 745, Jacob Grieve of Stannington, Northumberland, England

           Gen. 852, William Greves/Grieves of Elizabeth City, Pasquatank Co., NC

           Gen. 854, Janet Grieve and William S. Hastie

           Gen. 855, Helen Grieve and ------ Fairbairn of Fife, Scotland

           Gen. 856, Edmund Grieves of England

           Gen. 857, Joseph Grieve and Anna Maria Greven Kamp

           Gen. 872, Peter Grieves and Isabella Russell of Scotland & OH

           Gen. 875, John Grieve and Agnes ------ of Scotland, NY & Nebraska

           Gen. 933, Andrew Grieves (or Greefs) of South Shields, Durham, England

           Gen. 949, James Grieve and Elizabeth Imrie of Co. Fife, Scotland

           Gen. 950, Walter Grieve and Margaret Laidly of Scotland

           Gen. 951, John Grieves of Durham and Northumberland, England

           Gen. 952, Abraham Grieve and Elizabeth ------ of Northumberland, England

           ** Gen. 953, William Grieve and Eleanor Turnbull of Northumberland, England & York Co., New Brunswick, Canada

           Gen. 959, William Grieves of North Shields, Northumberland, England

           Gen. 970, John Grieves and Ann ------ of South Shields, Durham, England


As noted above, there are only a few men with these names who have taken a Y-DNA test so far and are part of the Graves DNA project.  Those who have taken a Y-DNA test are:

           93203, Frederick Marvin Greaves, I-ungrouped, Gen. 745, Jacob Grieve of Northumberland, b. 1700, No Y-DNA matches found, 1 match with Sven Carl Ernberg at 12 markers in entire database

           147171, Larry Michael Grieve, R-Ungrouped, R-P311, Gen. 953, William Grieve, 1799-1875, no matches with Grieve but matches with Grigsby, Walker and others at 25 markers; at 12 markers matches with Lewis Michael Graves (unknown genealogy) and Clyde Reginald Greaves (gen. 47)

           N118542, Larry Grieve, R-L200, James Grieve, b. 1793, d. 1877, Gen. 435, matches at 111 markers mostly with Dryden-Dreadin-Dreaden-Dreading from Scotland, the only Graves was at 37 markers (Walter H. Graves)

           348502, Jamesey Grieve, R-P312, Adam Grieve, b. 1773, d. 1848, Gen. 446, matches Mark Richard Grieves at 37 markers

           N29659, Mark Richard Grieves, R-L200, Richard Grieves, 1941-2007, matches at 37 markers with Jamesey Grieve and many Dryden names


It appears from the above list of 5 testers that genealogies 745 and 953 are not related to each other or to the other 3 testers.  It also appears that the last 3 testers may all be related to each other and part of the same genealogy, although Larry Grieve is not as closely related, but does share the Dryden connection.







The page on the GFA website for the Graves Family Bulletin has a new feature.  (Move your cursor over the Products drop-down tab to see the link for that page.)  Toward the bottom of the page, for the links to the most recent issues, I have added links to the table of contents for each issue.  I thought this might make it easier to quickly browse through the issues to see whether there might be any articles of interest.  Let me know if you think this feature is helpful.



There have been some additions to the “Specific Research Projects” section at the bottom of the Ancestral Research Program page.  (Move your cursor over the Research drop-down  tab to see the link for that page.)  Additions have been made to the pages for:

           Capt. Thomas Graves of VA

           Graves Families of Hertford/Harlow Area, Hartford, CT & VA

           Greaves Families of Beeley

           Graves Families of Lincolnshire, England & Lynn, MA

           Quaker Graves Families of Northern Ireland and Delaware



This page and the membership application have been updated.  Both these documents had become a little outdated, so they have been revised.  Years ago, a major benefit of membership in the GFA was receiving the printed newsletter in the mail.  Now membership is largely a way to help defray a small portion of the expenses involved in maintaining the website, updating genealogies, doing research, and preparing to publish genealogies.  Your support is always appreciated.




Gen. 141, John Graves and Martha Louisa Graves of Gloucester Co. & York Co., VA






An interesting article on this subject called “Secondary Genealogical and Genetic Lines” is in the DNAeXplained blog by Roberta Estes.  Roberta defines a secondary line as one not connected genetically to the first line.  She points out the advantages of shaky leaf matches on Ancestry.  However, a major drawback on Ancestry is that there is no way to prove a genetic relationship.  A chromosome browser and triangulation is needed for that, and Ancestry has neither.


Since everyone is connected with everyone else by multiple lines if we go back far enough, it is not surprising to find that some of those multiple matches are recent enough to show up in autosomal DNA test results.  As Roberta says, “if the person we match has ancestors living in the same geography as our ancestors, there’s a possibility that they will share a second (or even third) ancestral line.”  She continues, “I thought it would be a rare match where I would have two disconnected genealogical lines.  In reality, it appears that it could be about half the time.”  She says, “What this really means is that we cannot assume that DNA/Tree matches [on Ancestry] are connecting the dots between the right genetic lines and the right pedigree lines in a tree – because about half the time, it could be the wrong line in our and their tree.”



Although Roberta Estes sees serious shortcomings in Ancestry’s matching technology, she has found it to be very helpful when it is used properly (which she explains in her article).  On the other hand, Jason Lee in an article in his blog has an especially harsh critique of Ancestry’s shaky leaf matching procedure.  Jason gives a good description of a new chromosome browser that he thinks Ancestry should consider adding in another blog article.  To see the archived postings on Jason’s blog on tumblr, click on the link with 3 horizontal lines in the top left corner, and then click on Archive.


Although I think that most of the criticisms of Ancestry’s shaky leaf matching are valid, I also think we need to learn to take advantage of what is available.  For that purpose, Roberta’s suggestions are very helpful.



Roberta Estes has another blog article dated Feb. 2, 2015, titled “Getting the Most Out of AncestryDNA.”  Although she is not satisfied with Ancestry’s matching tools, this article gives some good tips on how to take advantage of what Ancestry does have.



           Those who have tested with Ancestry should use the matching tools provided there (shaky leaf and DNA circles).

           They should follow the example of many others who have transferred their test results to Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) and GedMatch, or taking a Family Finder test at FTDNA.  With the transfer to FTDNA it is important to pay for the transfer, since it provides all matches and full access to the analytical tools.

           The discussion in Roberta’s article sheds light on the observation of many that they often match people from one or more Graves/Greaves lines other than their own.  In a few cases this may mean that they have more than one Graves/Greaves ancestral line, but usually it means that the line they match that person on is not the Graves line.






To commemorate Black History Month, Fold3 (now part of is making its Black History records available for free through the end of February.  Click here to see the complete blog article.  In order to make browsing these records easier, Fold3 has divided them into the categories of Slavery, the Civil War, Reconstructions & Jim Crow Laws, the World Wars, and the Civil Rights Movement.






The Weekly Genealogist, online newsletter of the New England Historic Genealogical Society (NEHGS), Feb. 4, 2015, mentions an article titled “How to Hire a Professional Genealogist You Can Trust” by Louis Henry Gates, Jr., and Suzanne Stewart, director of Research Services at NEHGS.  This article attempts to answer the question: What can you do to further your genealogy goals when you have taken your family tree research efforts as far as you can take them on your own?  Professor Gates first lists the four main services of a professional genealogist as tracing ancestry, researching descendants, searching records, and DNA testing and interpreting of results.  He then discusses certification of professional genealogists and how to find the right person for your needs.


** Also do my own search for other articles, and add my own opinions.  For instance, the use of DNA group administrators at FTDNA, participation in mailing lists such as those at ISOGG and GOONS, and people at libraries, genealogical societies, etc., can all help.






Since St. Patrick’s Day, March 17, will be here soon, learning about Irish genealogy seems especially appropriate.  The first of two opportunities to learn more features two experts from the Ulster Historical Foundation who will be offering an all-day seminar at the Courtyard Marriott Downtown in Boston, Massachusetts on Saturday, March 21, explaining how to get the most from Irish resources and records for Irish and Scots-Irish ancestors.  Cost is $85.  For more information and to register, click here.


The second opportunity is for members of New England Historic Genealogical Society (NEHGS) who can register for an online course titled “Irish Genealogical Research: Sources and Methods”.  This is scheduled for Wednesdays, March 18, 25, and April 1, 6-7:30 p.m., at a cost of $75.  You can register here, and can join NEHGS to be eligible for this and other courses here.


You can see more about the Online Learning Center of NEHGS here and their online programs (including their Irish Genealogical Research course) here.






Roberta Estes, in a Feb. 5 article in her DNAeXplained blog, gives a good answer to this question.  She compares the pluses and minuses of 23andMe,, and Family Tree DNA, listing what she considers to be their best feature, good features, not so good features, and worst feature.  She also points out that which company is the best for you also depends on your goals, individual priorities, and budget.


Judy Russell’s Feb. 2 blog article in The Legal Genealogist gives recommendations from a slightly different perspective.






This database, launched on 14 Feb. 2015, contains over 64,000 names.  It can be seen here.  It is a fully-searchable database of people known to have migrated to England during the period of the Hundred Years’ War and the Black Death, the Wars of the Roses and the Reformation.  A search of the database will give a hit if the name is found as a word anywhere in the record.  Thus, the search results for Grave gave Henry Depyng because his place of origin included Grave in what is now Netherlands.  The number of hits for various surnames in the database are in the following table.  Of the 64,000 immigrants, only about 4,000 had a location of origin indicated.  The majority of the known origins were from what are now the Netherlands, Germany, France, and northern Italy.





Greave, Greaves



Grave, Grayve


Most names were in London and Middlesex. John Grayve/Grave lived in Boston, Lincolnshire in 1440, with servant Rike Goderyk. Also in Boston in 1440 was Reginald vaan Grave, servant to John Luter. Possible ancestors of gen. 83.




Grieve, Grieves, Greive, Greives




Dr. Bart Lambert’s talk on the England’s Immigrants project can be seen here on the Guild of One-Name Studies YouTube channel.  You can also see many other interesting videos on this channel.





This bulletin is written and edited by Kenneth V. Graves,



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