GRAVES FAMILY BULLETIN
Vol. 17, No. 9, Dec. 11,
2015
A
Free, Occasional, Online Summary of Items of Interest to Descendants of all
Families of Graves, Greaves, Grieves, Grave, and other spelling variations
Worldwide
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Copyright
© 2015 by the Graves Family Association and Kenneth V. Graves. All rights reserved.
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CONTENTS
**
General Comments
**
Finding Your Correct Y-DNA Haplogroup Subclade
**
Ancestry to Retire Family Tree Maker Software
**
Some Clues About the Possible Ancestry of Capt. Thomas Graves of Virginia
**
Updates to the GFA Website
** To Submit Material to this Bulletin & Other
Things
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GENERAL
COMMENTS
The
main article in this issue is about the research indicating the possible origin
of Capt. Thomas Graves of genealogy 169.
It certainly doesnÕt answer all questions about that family, but it is a
good starting point for further research.
Another
article encourages male Graves/Greaves descendants to take advantage of the
sale at Family Tree DNA to upgrade their Y-DNA test to 111 markers, and to join
the appropriate haplogroup project (as discussed in an article in the previous
issue of this bulletin). A third
article discusses the announcement from Ancestry that they are discontinuing
support for the Family Tree Maker software program.
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FINDING YOUR
CORRECT Y-DNA HAPLOGROUP SUBCLADE
The
following message from Mike Walsh, R1b project administrator, was sent on Dec.
8 to all those who have done Y-DNA testing at Family Tree DNA. The purposes of Y-DNA testing for male
Graves/Greaves descendants are to find: (1) which family you are part of, (2)
which branch of that family you are part of, and (3) how your Graves/Greaves
family relates to others. To do
that, we need to test for STRs (the tests for 12 through 111 markers) and for
SNPs. MikeÕs message provides a
recommendation for STR testing and more explanation.
ÒPeople in any R1b subclade from R-M269 on down should consider
going to 111 Y STRs or 67 at a minimum.
R1b-M269's expansion across Europe has now been documented by
scientists as a fairly recent timeframe - the Bronze Age. This means
that R1b people from Europe typically have STRs that follow along with the
Super Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype and our tree looks more like a bush than
a tree.
We need more STRs to discern our haplotypes in matching systems
and analysis.
1. More STRs can help guide you on SNP/haplogroup testing,
saving money on that kind of testing.
2. More STRs can provide additional and better matches on your
myFTDNA matches screen.
3. More STRs improve precision for Time to Most Recent Common
Ancestor estimates (TMRCA).
4. A 111 Y STRs haplotype is estimated to have a change about
every three generations which is very helpful for family tree building when you
reach brick walls in your genealogy.
Below are the upgrade sale prices and savings from the standard
price. The pricing expires December 31, 2015.
Y12 to 67 STRs for $151 saving $58
Y12 to 111 STRs for $271 saving $88
Y25 to 67 STRs for $118 saving $50
Y25 to 111 STRs for $199 saving $70
Y37 to 67 STRs for $79 saving $40
Y37 to 111 STRs for $176 saving $64
Y67 to 111 STRs for $103 saving $46
The savings can be substantial, percentage-wise.
If you haven't, please also join the R1b all subclades project
at the web link below. If you join and get to at least 67 STRs we'll include
you in the all R1b haplotype spreadsheet analysis. For more information, click here.
We will also help you get placed in the right major subclade
project!Ó
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ANCESTRY TO
RETIRE FAMILY TREE MAKER SOFTWARE
The
following article was posted on the Ancestry blog on Dec. 8. A similar email was sent to all
Ancestry customers. The consensus
so far is that the management at Ancestry thinks they can generate more income
by delivering all functionality through a subscription service, and they see
Family Tree Maker as competition for their subscription. Not a good move for customer trust and
satisfaction!
In
the opinion of one commentator on the ISOGG list (John Beardsley), this latest
announcement is just the latest in a long list of customer betrayals by
Ancestry. His list includes the
discontinuance of Y-DNA and mtDNA sales, the discontinuance of support for the
data from the tests they had already sold, their reducing online services such
as RootsWeb, and their discontinuance of their commitment to maintain SMGF DNA
database.
Alternatives
to Family Tree Maker include RootsMagic, Legacy Family Tree, and BrotherÕs
Keeper. RootsMagic seems to be
slightly more highly regarded, but what is best for any individual depends on
personal needs. Click here
to see a list of links to some optional genealogy programs. You can usually try a free version of
the programs or use a free trial of the full version of these programs before
deciding which one you want to use. None of these products synch with AncestryÕs online
trees as Family Tree Maker does, but Ancestry has not offered any other options
(yet). Of course, another option is just to keep using Family Tree Maker; it
will continue working even though it wonÕt synch with AncestryÕs online trees
after next year.
RootsMagic
has already responded with a special update discount offer for Family Tree
Maker users. See their blog
article here.
Kendall
Hulet of Ancestry has responded to the many complaints about this action with a
blog article here.
Posted by Kendall Hulet on December 8, 2015 in Family Tree Maker
Ancestry is proud to have made a
significant investment this year to bring valuable new content and records to
the Ancestry site. In 2015, weÕve made 220 million searchable historical
records from Mexico available, more than 170 million pages from the largest
collection of U.S. will and probate records, among others. WeÕve also
introduced new features such as Ancestry Academy and major advancements for
AncestryDNA.
We remain dedicated to helping
people gain new levels of understanding about their lives, and who and what led
to them, harnessing the information found in family trees, historical records
and genetics. As a company, weÕre also continually evaluating ways to focus our
efforts to provide the most impact and best product experience for our users
through our core offerings.
True to this focus, weÕve taken a
hard look at the declining desktop software market and the impact this has on
being able to continue to provide product enhancements and support that our
users need. With that, weÕve made the decision to stop selling Family Tree
Maker as of December 31, 2015.
Our subscription business and
website, on the other hand, continue to grow and we are doubling down our
efforts to make that experience even better for our Ancestry community.
Ancestry will continue to support current owners of Family Tree Maker at
least through January 1, 2017. During this time, all features of the software,
including TreeSyncª, will continue to work, and Member Services will be
available to assist with user questions. We will also address major software
bugs that may occur, as well as compatibility updates.
These changes are never easy, but
by focusing our efforts, we can concentrate on continuing to build great
products for our loyal Ancestry community.
If you have inquiries regarding
Family Tree Maker, please reach out to our Member
Services team.WeÕll also provide updates on our blog as needed
leading up to January 1, 2017.
You can see more, including the many
incredulous comments, by clicking here.
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SOME CLUES
ABOUT THE POSSIBLE ANCESTRY OF CAPT. THOMAS GRAVES OF VIRGINIA
Dr.
Charles Graves of Geneva Switzerland, descended from genealogy 70 (Richard
Greaves of Bradfield, Yorkshire and Chesterfield, Derbyshire), has found some
interesting information about the possible origin of Capt. Thomas Graves of
genealogy 169 in England. Since
people associated with each other in their country of origin often migrated to
other places as a group or to places where associates have gone, he has
investigated the associates of Capt. Thomas Graves in Virginia, and where those
people may have come from in England.
He has submitted the following article (with minor editing by me). Comments and further investigation are
encouraged.
I
encourage others to use this approach to find the likely place of origin of
other ancestors. This applies to
origins within the same country as well as migration from Europe to other
continents.
Regarding the Captain Thomas
Graves of Jamestown DNA we consulted the Internet for the history of him and
found the following names of persons who had been associated with him from
about 1608, in the HungarÕs church, or as spouses of his children. 15 of these
names were Hertfordshire families (10 living within about 10 miles of Much
Hadham, Herts, in the period 1550-1600 and 5 within 20 miles of that village).
5 of the family names did not seem to be from Hertfordshire.
¥ Christopher
Newport, a Newport family at Barkway, Herts
¥ George
Yeardley, a Weston, Herts. Family
¥ Walter
Shelley, no Herts. connection
¥ Henry
Singleton, married Helen Bush at Little Hadham, Herts.
¥ Thomas
Edge, no definite Herts. connection.
¥ Crowshaw
family at Cheshunt, Herts.
¥ Obedience
Robins, a Baldock, Herts. family
¥ John Howe,
a Hunsdon, Cheshunt or Gilstead, Herts. family
¥ William
Stone, from Watford, Herts.
¥ William
Burdett, from Walken near Baldock, Herts.
¥ William
Andrews, from Flamstead near St. Albans, Herts.
¥ John
Wilkins, a Baldock, Herts. family
¥ Edward
Drews, a St. Albans, Herts. family
¥ Alex
Mountray, William Benimann, Stephen Carlkton, no apparent Herts. connection.
¥ Nathaniel
Eaton, St. Albans, Herts
¥ Frances
Doughty, Sawbridgeworth, 3 miles from Much Hadham, Herts. (one of the husbands
of Capt. Thomas GravesÕ daughter Ann was a Frances Doughty -- probably from the
Doughty family from this same Sawbridgeworth, Herts, a short distance southeast
of Much Hadham).
¥ Thomas
Sprigg and Jane MacGuffy, no apparent connection to Herts.
Moreover, one article in the Internet
about Captain Thomas Graves notes that he was listed as Thomas Grave (p. 304,
Virginia Company of London, Vol. IV). My research on baptismal records in
Hertfordshire (www.familysearch.org) show only the following persons called
Thomas Grave or Thomas Graves born in Herts. 1550-1600:
¥ Thomas
Graves, bap. 1570 Cheshunt, father Thomas Graves
¥ Thomas
Grave, bap. 1571 Much Hadham, father John Grave
¥ Thomas
Grave, bap. 1575 Much Hadham, father John Grave
¥ Thomas
Grave, bap 1584 Much Hadham, mother Johann (Joan) Grave (no father listed)
¥ Thomas
Grave, bap. 1588 Thundridge, Herts, father Thomas Grave
Many Grave family members were
listed in Cheshunt, Much Hadham and Thundridge in Herts in that period. Some
early 17th century Grave family members were bap. in Baldock, Herts (see above
references to Baldock).
Verlinda was one of Capt. Thomas
GravesÕ daughters. This name appears to be taken from the Vrlyn family of St.
Giles Cripplegate parish in London, an important church related to overseas
colonial expansion. As for Katherine Croshawe someone with this name (wife of
Capt. Thomas Graves?) was baptised 1580 at St. Mary Woolnoth church in London
(father Edward). It was also an important church with members related to
overseas expansion.
Thus, to search for DNA
connections with Grave /Graves families in Hertfordshire, probably we should
start with the Grave families since that seems to be the main Herts. family
with Grave/Graves name in the 17th century. I found a couple of persons
residing in Herts. today with that name: Nils Grave and Stephen John Grave. I
am trying to locate their addresses in order to write them. However if Capt.
Thomas Graves is the Thomas Grave born of Joan Grave 1584 at Much Hadham then
we have a problem. Apparently the same Joan Grave married Josias Paneley at
Sawbridgeworeth near Much Hadham in 1588 and a Joan Grave married a Basil
Milles 1597 at Stevenage, Herts.
but we do not know if this Josias or this Basil was the father of Thomas
Grave bap. 1584 of mother Joan (see additional comments about Josias Paneley
toward the end of this article).
From our work within
www.familysearch,org, we determined that there were four males named Thomas
Grave/Graves born in Hertfordshire 1550-1600 at the era when the adventurers
who founded Jamestown were largely Hertfordshire adventurers (see above). We
have simply eliminated Thomas Graves bap 1570 at Cheshunt since his family
membersÕ names (Edward, Elizabeth) do not appear in Capt. Thomas GravesÕ
family. But there were at least three ÔThomas GraveÕ as candidates for the
Captain, i.e. Thomas Grave bap. 1576 (of father John) and Thomas Grave bap.
1584 (of mother Joan) both at Much Hadham, and Thomas Grave bap 1588 of father
Thomas. at Thundridge, Herts.
These Thomas Grave apparently had
children in Herts. later, as follows:
¥ John Grave
child of Thomas Grave bap. 1626 at Thundridge
¥ Mary Grave
child of Thomas Grave bap. 1602 at Baldock,
¥ Margaret
Grave daughter of Thomas Grave bap 1615 at Baldock
¥ Frances
Grave child of Thomas Grave bap. 1616 at Baldock
¥ George
Grave child of Thomas Grave bap., 1609 at Baldock
¥ Robert
Grave child of Thomas Grave bap 22 July 1619 at Baldock
¥ Mary Grave
bap 1625 at Widford (next to Much Hadham) of Thomas Grave and Margaret
At first glance it appears that
there were several Thomas Grave families having children, 1600-1626 in Herts,
that probably Thomas Grave of Thundridge (bap 1588) was involved and that (one or both) Thomas Grave of Much
Hadham (bap 1575, 1584) were involved. That some children were baptized by
Thomas Grave at Baldock (near where at least 5 of the Jamestown adventurers
came from) seems to indicate that that Thomas Grave may have been Capt. Thomas
Graves of Jamestown.
But if those children baptized at
Baldock were of Capt. Thomas Graves, what happened to them? They are not listed
as children of Capt. Thomas on Graves family records in Jamestown colony. However, Frances Graves is listed as
Capt. Thomas GravesÕ last daughter in those records, but no further information
was available to the researchers about her.
The Frances Grave shown baptized
at Baldock above was perhaps the one later listed in Herts. as marrying John
Baker at Great Munden, Herts in 1672. Great Munden (represented by the hamlet
of Nasty, which is in the civil parish of Great Munden, on the following map)
is about 7 miles from Much Hadham, home of the two Thomas Grave (bap. 1575,
1584) whom we are concerned about.
As for a Robert Grave (bap. 1619
at Baldock of Thomas Grave) he was perhaps the Robert Grave father of a son
Robert Grave baptized at the Abbey St. Albans, Herts. in 1640.
As for a George Grave, there was a
George Grave son of George Grave bap. at Much Hadham 1631 and 1644 and a George
Grave son of George Grave bap.
1644 at Baldock, Herts. Here we
seem to have the same George Grave (bap. 1644) listed at both Much Hadham and
Baldock, Herts. reinforcing our view that the children bap. at Baldock have a
relation to the two Thomas Grave bap. at Much Hadham in 1575 and 1584.
This Robert Grave son of Thomas Grave
was baptized at Baldock on July 22, 1619. Captain Thomas Graves was placed in
charge of his ÔhundredÕ in Virginia in May 1618, but he joined the Legislative
assembly on July 30 1619 (Wikipedia article). After the bap. of Robert Grave at
Baldock in 1619 no other children of Thomas Grave were known there. This at
least proves that the Thomas Grave at Baldock could be Capt. Thomas Graves of
Jamestown. It also indicates (if it was Capt. Thomas Graves) that the Captain
decided to leave some of his children (Mary?, Frances, George and Robert) in
Herts and to carry only his sons John and Thomas with him to America.
What about those two recorded sons
John and Thomas? Their records of birth are difficult to find. I did find a
record for a John Grave son of Thomas Grave bap. at Blackmoor End, Essex (25
miles east of Much Hadham, Herts.) in 1612. This coincides with generalized
suppositions about his birthdate. Moreover, for Thomas there is a baptismal
record of a Thomas Graves son of Thomas Graves baptized at abbey St Albans,
Herts. in 1617. This also
coincides with generally held suppositions. After all, Capt. Thomas Graves was
called ÔGravesÕ by the time he was becoming a leader in Virginia.
There has been speculation as to
the last name of Capt. Thomas GravesÕ wife, supposedly a Croewshaw (Crosher).
There is no information about this in Herts. records except for the fact that a
wife of a Thomas Grave of Thundridge or Much Hadham was a Margaret. A wife was
not specifically related to the Baldock births or baptisms, but only to the
1625 Widford, Herts. birth. By 1625 Captain Thomas Grave was permanently
settled in Virginia. I have researched the various Baldock-related
ÔadventurersÕ families of Newport, Yeardley, Robins, Burdett and Willkins but
found no ÔKatherineÕ born of those families in Herts. Thus, Capt. Thomas Graves
apparently did not marry a sister of these his colleagues
Thus, it appears that Captain
Thomas Graves was called Thomas Grave in Hertfordshire, that he had a family
there (some of whom did not go to Virginia) and that he was either the son of
John Grave of Much Hadham, Herts. baptized in 1575 or the son of Joan Grave
(mother) baptized in 1584 at Much Hadham. In any case a Herts. Grave DNA should
be sought, particularly since Capt. Thomas Graves was named as Thomas Grave in
the Virginia company records, and since many of his early colleagues at
Jamestown were from Hertfordshire (as shown above) and because there were a few
Thomas Grave baptized in Herts. at the appropriate time.
More information about Josias Paneley:
Note: Josias Paneley married a
Joan Grave in 1588 at Strawbridgeworth, Herts She was perhaps Joan Grave, the
mother of Thomas Grave baptized at Much Hadham (a few miles from
Strawbridgeworth) in 1584. The children of this couple were Jone bap. 1592 at
Strawbridge-worth 1592; Arthur bap. 1594 at ditto; Margaret bap. 1597 at ditto; John bap. 1601 at ditto; and Mary bap. 1605 at ditto.
Other records of a Paneley family are to be found in Herts. (16th-17th century
only)
For what it is worth, Josias
Paneley (he married Joan Grave in
1588 at Sawbridgeworth, Herts) had the following children (no mother named but
no doubt it was Joan Grave)
Jone bap 1592 Sawbridgeworth,
Herts.
Artur bap 1594 ditto
Margaret 1597 ditto
John 1601
ditto
Mary 1605
ditto
That ÔJoneÕ (female) was the first
named child might indicate that Joan Grave was his wife. (Joan Grave was the
mother of Thomas Grave bap. Much Hadham 1584 and a Joan Grave married Josias
Paneley in 1588).
Some of the places mentioned in the article:
¥ Much
Hadham, Herts., home of the Thomas Grave families, was seat of the country
house of the Bishops of London. Katherine of Valois (widow of king Henry V)
gave birth here to Edmond Tudor, 1st Earl of Richmond, whose son was king Henry
VII
¥ Blackmore
End (near Chipping Ongar, Essex) held an Augustinian monastery confiscated by
king Henry VIII and made into one of his country residences. His bastard son,
Henry Fitzroy, was born here.
¥ Sawbridgeworth
in Herts. was close by a residence called Pishobury belonging to Anne Boleyn,
wife of King Henry VIII. Ralph Joselyn, twice mayor of London, was buried in
the church.
¥ Baldock,
Herts. was a busy market town on the entry to the ÔGreat North RoadÕ out of
London. It had been founded by the Knights Templar (chivalric Order with strong
connections to the Levant)
¥ Widford,
Herts. was the early home of John Eliot (1604-1680) first Puritan missionary to
the American Indians. He arrived in Boston in 1631.
¥ Abbey St.
Albans, Herts. After the dissolution of the monasteries by King Henry VIII, the
abbey was purchased by the town of St. Albans in 1553. It was made into a
parish church. Its dilapidated roof was repaired by King James I in 1612.
(Jamestown in America was named after this king). Note above:Thomas Graves, son
of Thomas Graves (Capt. Thomas Graves?) was baptized here at the abbey church
in 1617.
It is quite striking that all the
places associated with the Thomas Grave /Thomas Graves of this article had
strong connections to the bishops and mayors of London and to the royal family
members.
A
Google map of the area where these people lived is especially interesting
because it coincides with where the ancestors of the genealogy 168/169/65 group
of families lived (in Hertford, Harlow, Nazeing, and Hatfield). Although I had thought there was a
slight possibility that the descendants of the Thomas-John-Ralph-Ralph-etc.
line of genealogy 169 was from a descendant of gen. 168 that moved to Virginia
(rather than actually from Capt. Thomas Graves, in spite of the strong evidence
to the contrary), the article above strongly supports the idea that Capt.
Thomas Graves was from Hertfordshire and the Y-DNA of his descendants should
match that of genealogy 168. The
map is below, with most of the towns in the preceding article underlined in
red, and those associated with the origins of the genealogies in Y-DNA group
168 with red lines both above and below.
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UPDATES TO THE
GFA WEBSITE
Updated
charts:
¥ DNAchart169.pdf, All
descendants of Capt. Thomas Graves (gen. 169)
¥ R-Y-SNP-chart.pdf,
Graves/Greaves Y-DNA SNP Chart for Haplogroup R
¥ I-Y-SNP-chart.pdf,
Graves/Greaves Y-DNA SNP Chart for Haplogroup I
Revised
genealogies:
¥ Gen. 111, John D. Graves of
MD, KY & MO
¥ Gen. 169, Capt. Thomas
Graves of VA
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ABOUT
THIS BULLETIN:
This
bulletin is written and edited by Kenneth V. Graves, ken.graves@gravesfa.org.
TO SUBMIT MATERIAL TO THIS
BULLETIN:
Send
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TO JOIN THE GRAVES FAMILY
ASSOCIATION:
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you do not already belong to the GFA, you can join by sending $20 per year to
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COPYRIGHTS:
Although
the contents of this bulletin are copyrighted by the Graves Family Association
and Kenneth V. Graves, you are hereby granted permission, unless otherwise
specified, to re-distribute part or all to other parties for non-commercial
purposes only.