GRAVES FAMILY BULLETIN
Vol. 19, No. 1, January 31,
2017
A
Free, Occasional, Online Summary of Items of Interest to Descendants of all
Families of Graves, Greaves, Grieves, Grave, and other spelling variations
Worldwide
===============================================================
Copyright
© 2016 by the Graves Family Association and Kenneth V. Graves. All rights reserved.
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CONTENTS
**
General Comments
**
Recent Death of a Graves Researcher, and Impact of Deaths of Other Graves
Researchers and Relatives
**
Y-DNA SNP Testing and Big Y
**
Finding the Identity and Descendants of Capt. Thomas Graves of VA
**
Updates to the GFA Website
**
How Many Unique Ancestors Do You Have?
**
Comment About Jamestowne Society Article in December Bulletin
** To Submit Material to this Bulletin & Other
Things
===============================================================
GENERAL
COMMENTS
This
issue of the Bulletin emphasizes the importance of using what is generally
called next generation DNA testing to prove the connections between and within
Graves/Greaves families, and to learn more about our ancestries. There is also more discussion about
Capt. Thomas Graves of Virginia, the first Graves settler in America.
===============================================================
RECENT DEATH
OF A GRAVES RESEARCHER, AND IMPACT OF DEATHS OF OTHER GRAVES RESEARCHERS AND
RELATIVES
DEATH OF SANDI GRAVES CARNES
Steve
Graves of St. Petersburg, FL, (descended from gen. 215) collaborated with Sandi
Graves Carnes of St. Pauls, NC (descended from gen. 511) on genealogy for at
least a couple of years. Sandi
died on Saturday, Jan. 28 in St. Pauls.
Excerpting
and editing some of SteveÕs comments by email and Facebook about Sandi: ÒShe was the lead
researcher for Graves genealogy 511, carrying back, as my Gen. 215, to
Rockingham Co. VA in the first half of the 1800s. Our g-g-grandfathers were
related in some way we figured -- Y-DNA backed up the geographic connection.
I cherish the phone calls and letters with Sandi over the past
two years on the subject of our Graves family history connection. She shared
and advanced where it was not easy to do so.Ó An example was when Steve couldnÕt find Daniel Graves of
gen. 511 in the 1820 and 1830 census records, and Sandi not only found the
records but also bought and sent the records to him. (It turned out that there was a transcription error for the
census records on Ancestry.)
ÒThat makes the
fourth researcher that has died in the past year or two. Sandi and another lady
in Minn. who was from Staunton, VA, then went to school in Richmond Ind. where
my g-g-grandmother and two of her children settled after VA. That lady spent
some time digging for me and came up with the existence of a court case
involving my Graves g-g-grandparents; I ordered a copy from Virginia state
library and it had helpful information (family facts), all of which I may have
never found on my own. She died unexpectedly in her sleep a year ago this time.
Both she and Sandi were in their early 60s.Ó
On the subject of
the relationship between genealogies 215 and 511, if you look at the master
table of Y-DNA test results you can see that gen. 511 is in the middle of a
group consisting of genealogies 56, 94, 152, and 215 (all in group
R1-228). All those in this section
of the group have a value of 18 in position 33, and some other distinctive
values, indicating their close connection.
COMMENTS ABOUT THE PASSING OF FAMILY MEMBERS
Over
the years (since the 1970Õs), I have corresponded and talked with many Graves
and Greaves family members. I have
been gathering family information since that time, and have been gathering and
interpreting DNA test results as the Graves DNA project administrator since
2001. Sadly, most of those I
communicated with in the 1970Õs are no longer with us, and even some of those
who have DNA tested are no longer alive.
We mourn the loss of these people at the same time as we remember and
commemorate the wonderful things they contributed to this world, including
helping us enlarge our understanding and appreciation of our ancestries.
The
most important thing about the death of a family member, whether closely or
distantly related, is obviously the personal loss. However, from a family research perspective there are also
other losses. Was there a missed
opportunity to get family information from the departed person? Was there a missed opportunity to get a
DNA sample for immediate or future testing? DonÕt delay talking to relatives about family information,
pictures and other things, and try to get samples for DNA testing from
relatives now. You may not have
that opportunity in the future.
===============================================================
Y-DNA SNP
TESTING AND BIG Y
During the end-of-year holiday sale at Family
Tree DNA, I communicated with most of those who had previously taken a Y-DNA
test to tell them of my interest in trying to help them learn more about their
part of the Graves/Greaves family, how they are connected to other branches of their
family, and to their earlier ancestry. DNA has been a wonderful tool. Through
traditional Y-DNA testing, everyone in each group of the master table of Y-DNA
test results has been found to share a common Graves/Greaves ancestor somewhere
in the past. We just donÕt yet know who that common Graves ancestor was, and
how the various families in each group are connected. You can see the Y-DNA
test results for everyone in this group on the master result table here.
Testing for changes in the genetic code for
SNPs (single nucleotide polymorphisms) is a fairly new technique that should
allow us to find the connections between the various families in this group
that share a common Graves ancestor. It also has the potential to help us find
when the surname began to be used, and where the earliest members of the family
lived.
As a big step in using this new testing tool,
it would be very helpful for at least one male from each of the various
genealogies to take a Big Y test from Family Tree DNA. This test, like all Y-DNA tests is only
for males since only males have a Y-chromosome. A traditional Y-DNA test (such as Y-DNA37) must be taken
first or at the same time, and then that same sample can be used for the Big Y
test.
The Big Y test
from Family Tree DNA is a relatively new kind of test that will allow us to
discover the kinds of things in the following list.
¥
Finding
where your Graves/Greaves ancestor lived at a particular time in the past,
possibly allowing tracking of their migration and dispersion paths. This
comes partly via some descendants knowing where their ancestors lived.
¥
Discovering
about when the surname first began to be used for your particular line.
¥
Finding how
your Graves/Greaves family is related to other Graves/Greaves families.
¥
Finding how
your family connects with other families that share a common Graves/Greaves
ancestor.
¥
Finding
SNPs belonging to specific branches or even to people within branches of large
families, allowing confirmation of lineages and proper placement of previously
unplaced segments of families.
Previous
to this past December, a total of 14 Big Y tests had been ordered. As a result of the price discounts
during the holiday sale at Family Tree DNA, 23 additional tests were ordered,
for a total of 37. The
distribution of tests is shown in the following table. The Y-DNA group is the name of a group
of one or more genealogies that share a common Graves/Greaves ancestor. These groups and the Y-DNA test results
within them can be seen on the master table accessible from the first link on
the Y-DNA page of the Graves Family Association website. (That table is the same one hosted on
the Family Tree DNA website and accessible by looking for the Graves DNA
project and clicking on the chart link, or clicking on this
link.) The kit numbers in red
in the following table are the ones for which we have Big Y results reported as
of Jan. 31, 2017; the positioning on the Y-haplogroup tree can be seen by going
to the Y-DNA page of the GFA website or clicking on this link.
Y-DNA Group |
Kit # |
Genealogy |
I1-085 |
39433 |
35 |
|
|
|
R1-018 |
19872 |
84 |
|
504196 |
145 |
|
|
|
R1-037 |
135193 |
37 |
|
|
|
R1-047 |
3694 |
47 |
|
76150 |
47 |
|
112147 |
47 |
|
476899 |
47 |
|
1370 |
270 |
|
100861 |
270 |
|
1444 |
270 |
|
1620 |
270 |
|
31930 |
270 |
|
N82532 |
270 |
|
334798 |
549 |
|
|
|
R1-168 |
37545 |
10 |
|
311424 |
65 |
|
47197 |
168 |
|
253992 |
169
(via son John) |
|
|
|
R1-169a |
23410 |
169 |
|
31933 |
169 |
|
92572 |
169 |
|
|
|
R1-169b |
135995 |
147 |
|
416674 |
147 |
|
232994 |
169 |
|
|
|
R1-228 |
521513 |
28 |
|
2905 |
62 |
|
1251 |
94 |
|
155941 |
150 |
|
198457 |
152 |
|
1338 |
166 |
|
1457 |
214 |
|
92202 |
220 |
|
45963 |
228 |
|
1456 |
247 |
|
1377 |
262 |
|
1441 |
334 |
|
|
|
R1-377 |
106111 |
116 |
Processing
time has been running about 6 weeks from the time an order was placed to when
the results are posted on the FTDNA website, so we expect to have all results
by sometime in February. The
haplogroup charts are being updated as the results arrive. Although the price of the test has gone
back to what it was before the sale, if you are anxious to see where your
Graves/Greaves ancestry fits in the haplogroup tree, what the related families
are, and perhaps even where they lived, please consider having a male family
member with the Graves/Greaves surname take a Big Y test.
HOW TO INTERPRET YOUR BIG Y
TEST RESULTS
When
your Big Y test results are reported, you will see two links, one to Results
and the other to Matches. Clicking
on Results will take you to a page with a list of the known SNPs (the ones that
are already known and named, that more than one person has). Clicking on Matches takes you to a list
of people you match. Both links
actually offer the same three options: known SNPS, novel variants (the new SNPs
that only you are known to have), and matching.
On
the matching page, you will find the name of each matching person (click on a
name to see contact and other information), the number of shared novel variants
(click on the number to see what those variants are), any known SNP differences
(the number and name of known, named SNPs that one of the matches has but the
other doesnÕt), plus some additional information. The important information will usually have been extracted
from these pages and summarized on the appropriate Y-haplogroup chart
accessible from the Y-DNA page on the Graves Family Association website.
Do
not be misled by the matching list.
The number of shared novel variants and the number of matching SNPs is
not a good indication of how closely people on the match list are related. The important thing is which SNPs are
shared. We still have much to
learn about which SNPs are significant for each ancestral line.
===============================================================
FINDING THE
IDENTITY AND DESCENDANTS OF CAPT. THOMAS GRAVES OF VA
A
major problem in using Y-DNA test results to determine the identity and
descendants of Capt. Thomas Graves of VA (genealogy 169) has been that DNA
tests from each of the various lines of descent have given different results. Since only one test result can be
correct, it is necessary to either prove which one is correct or prove which
ones are false. One way to
prove a line false is to prove that it is descended from another ancestor (of
Graves or other surname). In order
to be as objective as possible, the groups of descendants that are presently
being considered as possibly representing the true genetic descendants of Capt.
Thomas Graves are the following:
¥
Group R1-168, descendants through son John, but with DNA proof only
back to Ralph Graves, b. 1653
¥
Group R1-228, Francis Graves, b.c. 1630
¥
Group R1-169a, descendants through son Thomas, but with DNA proof only
back to John Graves, b. 1706
¥
Group R1-169b, descendants through son Thomas (or possibly son John),
but with DNA proof only back to Josiah Graves, b. 1778
Some
of these are much less likely to be true genetic descendants than others, but
we are trying to keep an open mind on the subject.
DNAchart169.pdf
on the GFA website shows kits 232994 and 156606 (both in group R1-169b with SNP
A11378) on the same chart with kit 23410, et al (in group R1-169a with
BY12203), and also on the same chart as kit 253992 (group R1-168 presently with
R-M269 but matching another kit with R-FGC5494 and expected to be a more recent
SNP as soon as Big Y results are posted). Group R1-169b has only been verified
on DNAchart169.pdf back to Josiah Graves, b. 1778; R1-169a only back to John
Graves, b. 1706; and R1-169 only back to Ralph Graves, b. 1653.
We cannot
presently prove by triangulation via DNA testing that either R1-169a or R1-169b
is descended from Thomas2 Graves (b.c. 1616), son of Capt. Thomas Graves, nor
can we presently prove that the R1-168 group is descended from John2 Graves
(b.c. 1611). If we found a group of descendants from John2 and Thomas2 that
were the same haplogroup, that would be pretty strong support for the
haplogroup of Capt. Thomas Graves, but we donÕt have that, and may never.
The most likely
ways I see to find the haplogroup of Capt. Thomas Graves are:
(1) Find the
genetic ancestries of the various groups we presently suspect of possibly being
the correct ones (R1-169a, R1-169b, R1-168, and R1-228 — not previously
discussed but which is BY12505). This obviously involves dating the various
pertinent ancestral SNPs. This may rule out SNPs or lines as not being in the
right place at the right time with the right name.
(2) Use a
combination of traditional documentary research and DNA testing to further
explore the possible descendants through Thomas2 Graves, as shown in genealogy
169 and on the chart
of the descendants of Capt. Thomas Graves through son Thomas. The documentation
and reliability of the other lines shown on this chart are considered somewhat
questionable, but some of it may be correct.
(3) Use
autosomal DNA results to find the ancestry of the daughters of Capt. Thomas
Graves and compare those results to the autosomal results of the sons.
(4) Continue to
search the records via traditional genealogical research to find the identity
of Capt. Thomas Graves, and then find other descendants to test and compare.
USING DNA TO PROVE THE
DAUGHTERS OF CAPT. THOMAS GRAVES OF VA
The family of Capt. Thomas Graves is of great
interest to many people, and has been much researched over the years. In spite
of that, it has been the most confusing and difficult of any of the major
Graves families. Much accepted research has been proven wrong as a result of
DNA testing. Therefore, I am reluctant to accept documentary proof not
substantiated by DNA testing. I would very much like to get DNA proof to
substantiate all the daughters of Capt. Thomas Graves.
Autosomal DNA testing is the way to get this
DNA proof, but it is a difficult and time-consuming process, especially because
the connection is so far back. (Autosomal DNA is the DNA that is inherited from
all our lines, and it is what is tested by Ancestry, 23andMe, and Family Tree
DNAÕs Family Finder.) With each passing generation, half of an ancestorÕs DNA
material is lost (on average). Each descendant inherits a different portion of
their motherÕs and fatherÕs DNA, so enough of Capt. ThomasÕs DNA to measure
will have been inherited by a small percentage of his descendants. I would love
to help do the necessary work to get the proof that Frances and the other
daughters are those of Capt. Thomas Graves, but I donÕt have the time. Mainly
what I can do right now is try to point you in the right direction and hope you
and others can do the needed work.
What is needed is a large number of
descendants of Capt. Thomas Graves with whom you share some DNA. You can start
on Ancestry.com by specifying in your match criteria that you only want to see
those who have Graves in their tree (or Truitt if you want to try searching
only for the Frances Graves line). If you find too many matches with Graves as
an ancestor, you can also specify born in Virginia. Then you need to look at
their tree to determine whether they are from Capt. Thomas Graves. Making a
tree of all those from Capt. Thomas Graves who match you would be helpful.
If you find a number of Capt. Thomas Graves
matches on Ancestry.com, you still wonÕt know for sure that they match on your
Graves ancestry because Ancestry.com doesnÕt have what is called a chromosome
browser. To get that tool (which will tell you which segment of which
chromosome the match is on), you need to transfer your DNA test results to
Family Tree DNA and perhaps also to GEDmatch. There is a small charge for
transferring your results to Family Tree DNA but you not only get the use of
more tools but also additional matches.
This is only scratching the surface. You can
get much more help for finding your ancestors with autosomal DNA on the
websites of Family Tree DNA and the International Society of Genetic Genealogy
(ISOGG), and in the many blog articles of Roberta Estes, and
elsewhere.
RESEARCH
NEEDED FOR CAPT. THOMAS GRAVES OF VIGINIA
There
are many research activities that are needed. Jean Wall (a descendant of Capt. Thomas Graves and a
long-time researcher) recently wrote in regard to the trip to England I
mentioned in a previous Bulletin: ÒWhen at Family
History Library in Salt Lake, I talked to a man with FamilySearch who said it
is possible to go to archives in London, probably sitting on floor (i.e., in
the main reading room), looking at the old records to find something on
GRAVES & CROSHAW before Virginia and on trips back. Wish you, or
someone, had time to do a little research on your trip. He said
those records have not been filmed.Ó
She also mentioned that if anyone decides to do research in London, they
should contact the archives before leaving the U.S.
===============================================================
UPDATES TO THE
GFA WEBSITE
Updated
pages:
¥
Numerical Listing of Genealogies and Charts, charts.php
Updated
charts:
¥
Y-DNA R-Haplogroup SNP Chart, R-Y-SNP-chart.pdf
¥
Y-DNA Group R1-169a SNP Tree, Y-SNP-Tree-R1-169a.pdf
¥
Y-DNA Group R1-228 SNP Tree, Y-SNP-Tree-R1-228.pdf
¥
Chart for Graves Family of Nelson Co. & Albemarle Co., VA, Probably
Descended from Snead Graves (Y-DNA Group R1-018), DNAchart-Snead.pdf
¥
Chart for Graves Family of Caroline Co. & Halifax Co., VA (Y-DNA
Group R1-018), DNAchart145-217.pdf
¥
Chart for descendants of Capt. Thomas Graves (Gen. 169),
DNAchart169.pdf
New
Genealogies:
¥
Gen. 642, Philip Graff and Anna Maria ------ of Nova Scotia, Canada
Revised/Updated
genealogies:
¥
Gen. 47, Descendants of Thomas Greaves and Joan ------ of Northamptonshire
& Buckinghamshire, England
¥
Gen. 77, John Graves and Margery Harvey of Randolph Co., NC
¥
Gen. 168, Thomas Graves of Hartford, CT & Hatfield, MA
¥
Gen. 220, Francis Graves of Gloucester Co. & Essex Co., VA
¥
Gen. 228, Greaves Family of Beeley, Derbyshire, England
===============================================================
HOW MANY
UNIQUE ANCESTORS DO YOU HAVE?
This
subject has been mentioned before, but Margie Niehaus called a YouTube video on
this subject to my attention. You
can see it here. After viewing that, you may see other
videos on the sidebar of interest to you.
===============================================================
COMMENT ABOUT
JAMESTOWNE SOCIETY ARTICLE IN DECEMBER BULLETIN
D.
Alan Smith, descended from John Graves of Concord, MA (genealogy 166) submitted
the following interesting comment.
While the VA lines for Jamestowne Society is
the most readily identifiable route for Graves descendants, there is another
route also. For the descendants of Cyrus (Gen. 166) and Roxana Rose
Graves, there is another ancestor. Through the Mayflower ancestry of
Roxana, there is the descent from John Vassall, stockholder of two shares in
the VA Company. Roxana gives access to Mayflower Society, at least one Huguenot
society, and of course, the Jamestowne Society. I am a member of
Mayflower and have just submitted my application for Jamestowne. I would
encourage all descendants of Roxana to seek Mayflower membership as we approach
the 400th arrival of the Mayflower in 2020. I missed Jamestowne.
===============================================================
ABOUT
THIS BULLETIN:
This
bulletin is written and edited by Kenneth V. Graves, ken.graves@gravesfa.org.
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BULLETIN:
Send
any material you would like to have included in this bulletin to
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If
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COPYRIGHTS:
Although
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and Kenneth V. Graves, you are hereby granted permission, unless otherwise
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